The Naruto fanbase makes a lot of comments in the vein of "Kakashi's speech would have kept Sasuke in the village if the Sound Four didn't show up".

Comments such as these ignore that Sasuke was never even considering something as drastic as deserting anyway until Kakashi gave his speech.

Kakashi gave Sasuke the ultimatum: it's either Konoha or revenge. There's no reason to assume Sasuke was contemplating deserting Konoha until Kakashi pushed him tto think in that vein by abruptly forcing Sasuke to make a sudden decision about whether he wants to be a Konoha shinobi or whether he wants to be the Uchiha's avenger. It's either one or the other, and Kakashi made it that way. Precisely because of Kakashi, Sasuke had to make a choice that will drastically influence the rest of his life: will he give up on his clan, knowing that his clan's killer is still out there, free and unpunished, and Sasuke had to give that goal up because he couldn't keep his bad attitude in check for one day? Or should Sasuke pursue his life purpose but abandon the teammates he'd come to love?

Previously, Sasuke didn't have to view life with such duality. He could be a member of Team 7 and be the Uchiha clan's avenger. Those were never mutually exclusive concepts in Sasuke's mind until Kakashi made them be, and that all started with Kakashi's treetop lecture. Prior to this, Sasuke wasn't contemplating whether to choose revenge or his team, because that wasn't an ultimatum Sasuke imposed on himself. Rather, it was an ultimatum Kakashi imposed on Sasuke.

Had Kakashi not brought Sasuke to this sudden crossroads, then I doubt the Sound ninja's offer would have been as effective. It's precisely because Kakashi brought Sasuke to a drastic crossroads that made Sasuke more likely to abandon the village than before. Without Kakashi's ultimatum, Orochimaru's side wouldn't have looked quite so appealing. Why abandon his team for revenge when he can have revenge and his team by staying in Konoha? But as Kakashi made clear to Sasuke, having both wasn't an option for Sasuke anymore,  at least not as long as he stayed with Team 7 in Konoha.

Thus Kakashi gave the Sound Four the perfect platform to sway Sasuke to their side. They promised Sasuke what he'd desired for the past 6 years of his life, whereas Kakashi was forcing Sasuke to give up on his purpose if he wanted to stay with Team 7.

Kakashi didn't "lose" to the Sound Four because they just happened to get the last word in. Contrary to popular belief, Sasuke isn't malleable or easily manipulated. Sasuke is stubborn and independent-minded, extremely difficult to manipulate, and not easy to persuade.

In truth, the reason that Kakashi didn't persuade Sasuke to stay is because Kakashi made the less appealing case.

Kakashi didn't lose in this battle of persuasion because Sasuke's some helplessly pathetic simpleton tossed about by whatever philosophy and ideology happens to be most recent in his mind. Sasuke chose the Sound ninja over Kakashi because the Sound Four's case appealed to him more than Kakashi's lecture did. When forced to choose between his family versus his friends, Sasuke was still going to choose his family.

True, if Sasuke was never presented with any other alternative to getting stronger than training in the Leaf Village, then obviously he wouldn't go because he wouldn't even have had that option available to him. So yes, the Sound Four gave Sasuke another option, so he took it.

Fans act like Kakashi's treetop speech was some kind of miracle cure that would've mentally patched Sasuke right up if Sasuke had only listened. But this is dumbing down how psychology and emotions work; it's never that simple, and the complexity of what Sasuke was struggling with was too big for one brief lecture alone to fix it.

In reality, Kakashi had given Sasuke essentially nothing to help him surmount his misery, nor had Kakashi given Sasuke reassurance, help in achieving his goal (he'd instead told Sasuke to give up on his life goal), or any guarantee of his safety or his team's safety. Kakashi had essentially ignored addressing any of the underlying problems that Sasuke was presently struggling with.

Kakashi's talk was never effective. It made Sasuke feel guilty and feel bad for Kakashi, and empathy is a good sign and a step in the right direction. But that doesn't do much (if anything) to decrease the frustration, anger, fear, worry, and guilt Sasuke was battling. It just means that on top of all those intense negative emotions Sasuke was already experiencing, he was still able to feel sorrow on another's behalf, so he hadn't lost the ability to feel sympathy for another person.

But that doesn't lessen or subdue his own emotional pain in any way; it just means that now Kakashi has piled his sadness on Sasuke's already tall stack of negative, painful emotions.

But in his case, knowing that other people are suffering too doesn't solve Sasuke's personal problems or eradicate his trauma. If it was that easy, then no one on the planet would ever be sad, miserable, unhappy, angry, afraid, guilty, upset, etc.

Sasuke wasn't going to magically give up on revenge just because Kakashi told him to. It's true that I doubt Sasuke would have deserted the village had he never been presented with that alternative (because people don't go for options that aren't even available to them), but Kakashi's speech still wouldn't have resolved Sasuke's personal emotional struggles or the tension between Team 7.

Kakashi's ultimatum would've still been something Sasuke struggled with. Even without the Sound Four, Sasuke might've chosen to leave the team of his own choice, deciding that if being a member of Team 7 meant giving up on revenge, then Sasuke would rather pursue a career elsewhere with someone who would help him achieve his revenge. Sasuke isn't going to easily let go of his revenge just because Kakashi says to.

Sasuke's misery isn't going away, and it's not going to be fun times for Team 7 for a while with things as they are. Sasuke is miserable and in an extremely unhealthy state of mind, and it's an issue that's going to require a lot of maturity, patience, responsibility, self-control, and understanding. Which is why Naruto later understands that much and that there isn't any quick-fix to deep-rooted psychological issues.

Even as is, after Kakashi's lecture, Sasuke didn't jump to the conclusion that, "Kakashi is right! I should give up on revenge because my team is way more important!" It's telling just how important Naruto and Sakura are to Sasuke, since when asked to throw away his life's purpose for them, it brings him much agony as he deliberates over which to choose, and he's seemingly unable to make such a choice. He anguishes over his options for hours.

Regardless, this shows that when his desire for revenge versus his friendship with Naruto and Sakura are weighed on scales, they come to about even, neither one emerging as the victor. Meaning that at this point in time, both things meant about the same to Sasuke, and he is reluctant to give up on either.

Kakashi hasn't changed Sasuke's mind, he's just left Sasuke feeling frustrated and desperate as he teeters back and forth in indecision on what to choose. The more Sasuke stresses out about making a decision, the wearier and more fatigued his mind grows, inevitably making his decision-making state of mind worse and worse by the minute.

That makes Kakashi's timing unfortunate. If Team 7 isn't an obvious priority in Sasuke's life, it means that Sasuke isn't ready for the ultimatum that Kakashi dropped on him. Kakashi should have never presented Sasuke with the "revenge or us" ultimatum until Naruto and Sakura were clearly more important to Sasuke than revenge was.

As is, in Sasuke's current state the scales evenly balance out, leaving Sasuke in a position where the slightest breath of wind will tip the scales. That breeze comes in the form of the Sound Four, who couldn't have asked for a better set-up than Kakashi's treetop ultimatum to make their case, especially since the stress and frustration of mulling over Kakashi's ultimatum has left Sasuke mentally fatigued, stressed, and irritated. It was an impossible choice, Sasuke didn't know what to do, and it was then that the Sound Four provided Sasuke with an option that allowed Sasuke to continue pursuing the thing that Kakashi had just forbidden him from: he could still have revenge.

Moreover, the Sound Four's appeal to Sasuke was personalized and specific to Sasuke's situation, whereas Kakashi's speech was generic and impersonal. None of Sasuke's concerns, worries, anxieties, fears, etc. are addressed in Kakashi's lecture. It almost feels like a "copy/paste" speech that could apply to the general public or any revenge-obsessed individual rather than a personable connection with his Uchiha student. It's detached and aloof, and Kakashi doesn't even reference or allude much to recent events. The only personal touches to Kakashi's speech were that Sasuke has the Chidori (which is to be used to protect friends, not kill them, an allusion to the hospital incident that just occurred), that Sasuke has a difficult to manage personality and won't willingly listen, and Kakashi called Sasuke by name during the conversation.

But there's a whole slew of concerns and problems that Kakashi didn't address: What about Sasuke's curse mark? How will they deal with that problem and its constant threat of taking over Sasuke's mind? How can they allow a ninja to commit genocide on the Leaf's civilians and go unpunished? What about threats like Orochimaru, Itachi, Kisame, etc. lurking about? How does getting rid of one's life purpose make suffering magically disappear? Is it okay to give up on your life purpose when it's your only reason you believe you have a right to exist in the world at all? Would Sasuke's clanmates and his parents be okay with him failing to avenge his fallen kin? What about Itachi hunting down Naruto? How will they protect their Uzumaki teammate? How will Sasuke deal with the frustration of feeling impotent and powerless against far stronger opponents that have tried to kill him and his friends in the past few weeks?

Kakashi addressed none of these problems, and so failed to address the problem altogether.

On the other hand, the Sound Four take a more personal approach, a customized appeal tailored to Sasuke's interests, wants, and perspective. They specifically address Sasuke's current struggles and sources of anxiety. The Sound Ninja Four address (1) the curse mark, (2) Sasuke's powerlessness, (3) his frustration with his slow progress, (4) Itachi, and (5) his life purpose. These are all relevant to Sasuke and his current situation, and all speak to him because they address things he is currently struggling with.

The Sound Four use physical force to make their point and to make Sasuke feel the full weight of how impotent and helpless and weak he truly is. In doing so, they put Sasuke in a frame of fear, not a great state of mind for best decision-making.

The Sound Four reveal they are Orochimaru's henchman, meaning it's only a matter of time before Sasuke is captured by Orochimaru. Orochimaru still wants Sasuke and is still targeting him. An entire squad of Orochimaru's goons can infiltrate the village at any moment, not to mention that Orochimaru has proven himself strong enough to slay even the Hokage and wipe out a third of the Leaf Village's army. From this, it may be apparent to Sasuke that it's only a matter of time before he's caught within Orochimaru's clutches regardless of what he chooses. No one in the village can stop Orochimaru, not even if they want to. Even now Sasuke is as good as captured if it were the Sound ninja's intention to take him by force. Meaning Sasuke is up for grabs and Orochimaru will eventually get him one way or another.

There's a sense of lonely fear as the Sound Four loom over him; Sasuke is frightened but knows no one will step in to save him. The dangers he faces are a threat he has to face alone. The visuals in the anime capture the potency of such lonely and isolated emotion, with Sasuke looking small, vulnerable, and weak against an intimidating and stronger group.

It's an effective opening to their point, because when the Sound Four invite Sasuke to join Orochimaru, it's in the promise of power. Since Sasuke has witnessed for himself the impressive power of the Sound Ninja Four and how none of Sasuke's attacks seemed to work on them, it makes Sasuke aware that their offer is credible.

If Sasuke doesn't want to spend his life getting tossed around by stronger opponents, than power is what he needs. And their timing couldn't be better: Sasuke has lost to Orochimaru, to Gaara, to Itachi, to Naruto, (he'd also just lost to Aoi, if we include that filler arc), and now he'd lost to the Sound Four. Sasuke's string of losses has been a crushing blow to his confidence. Each situation damaged his confidence further and made him feel increasingly useless and helpless, weary of being repeatedly bested by stronger enemies.

Sasuke's run-in with Itachi shattered Sasuke's self-confidence, making Sasuke wonder what he'd been doing all that time since the massacre. Itachi's beatdown left Sasuke discouraged and hating himself for not taking his purpose seriously. That's why the Sound Four's words strike a chord with Sasuke, because Sasuke feels that, as they say, he had been wasting time playing ninja, and he was beginning to realize that his friends were a distraction to his goal, especially when Kakashi made it clear that Sasuke could no longer have friends plus revenge, just one or the other.

The Sound Four's words resonate with Sasuke because Sasuke was already thinking them. By making the comment that Sasuke is "playing ninja", Sakon confirms Sasuke's pre-existing fear that Sasuke is messing around, wasting time, not taking his purpose seriously, and in doing so, acting like he doesn't care about his clanmates' deaths. Sasuke is receptive to Sakon's words because Sakon uses lingo that